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Wikipedia Standard Kurdish project - we need YOUR help

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Hesen
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I started in the english Wikipedia a Standard Kurdish project, that develope itself step bye step. I begined with the Kurdish /v/-loud at Old Iranic /m/.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Standard_Kurdish

What I need:
- Southern Kurdish examples
- Old and Middle Iranic examples

So I need the help from you all. If the part /v/ be fisnih, i will start a new vowel part and inform you.

qewax
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I just changed some words

Hello, I often visit KAL. This is first time that I write some comments. I share your ideas for standardisation of "same word pronounced differently".

I just changed some words. For "co-" in Kurmanjí (Northern Kurdish) we say "hev" and not hav. For "raw" xam is also used. For the prayer I never heard "nivéjh", we say niméjh, bu I keep your version, may be it's said. For "human" in 'Botan' (region of Amed, Mérdín, ...) they say "mirov" but in 'Serhed' (Agirí, Erzurom, Wan,...) we say "meriv". I heard some one saying "merov" (wich is formed by two versions, and I prefer it). But for the standardisation version we can decide for "merdom".

Admin
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Zazaki Kurdish /j/ and North Kurdish /jh/

Hesen, Is it possible to list as many as possible Zazaki words which shared with North Kurdish (kurmanji) where the phoneme /j/ in Zazaki is switched to /jh/ in North Kurdish?

For example
Zazaki > N.Kurdish
Jin --- Jhin
Roj --- Rojh
Jér --- Jhér
Ji --- Jhi
Réj --- Rijh

This is related to the FAQ on /j/ and /jh/ selection in Kurdish Unified writing.

Hesen
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Here are a few
qewax
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This zazaki /j/ is instead /ʣ/ and not /ʤ/.

This zazaki phoneme /j/ is instead /ʣ/ and not /ʤ/. It's sometime prounced /j/ sometime /dz/ but when? /dz/ as final, before e, í ??

Do you think to begin a work on /rd/ phoneme, which became /d/ in Northern Kurdish? For example:

merd --> mér (man)
merdim/ mirdom --> meriv/mirov (human)
ard --> ar (flour)
xwardin --> xwarin (to eat)
kirdin --> kirin (to do) ....

And, where can I find (on internet) pages about Old Persian, Avesta.... ?

DRoshani
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Why would not you do it here?

Why do you have to start a project at Wiki whilst you can have it on a site more related and concentrated on Kurdish language topic?

However, I am personally against any attempt to impose any sort of word selection especially when you say

step game (Avesta), gam (Parthian) gav gaw gam game gam - (gav)

The middle Kurdish is also gam not gaw, and your selection should point to the most common appearance in various dialect rather than the size of the population using that word.

I think that Kurdish scholars should use the terminology such as Kirmanji/kurmanji in linguistic studies with more care. The study is coving Kurdish language with North Kurdish, Mid Kurdish, South Kurdish, Dimilí Kurdish, and Hewramí Kurdish dialects. Again the terminology Kurdish is most used term by the speakers of Kurdish language. Terminology such as Kurmanj and Soran has been misused to create segregation amongst Kurds and shall be avoided in scholarly works.

§-------------------------------------------
- Alfabéygí Yekgirig/Yekgirtú careseri bineyíg erra girifteyli zuwani Kurdí ye!
- "We must become the change we want to see" [quote: Mahatma Gandhi]

Hesen
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The reason, why I started in

The reason, why I have started it in the Wikipedia, is, that everyboddy can edit there the mistakes. It will be a common work. At the end I will write an article about it and you can public it.

Do you mean with "Middle Kurdish" the Central dialect? It is better, if I make /m/ to Standard? I am also personally for the /m/-loud, because its older and its Proto-Kurdish.

In Ferheng.org stands "hengaw" for Soraní, hmm.

I changed now the terms into "Northern Kurdish", "Central Kurdish" and "Southern Kurdish":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Standard_Kurdish#v

Are the examples "xamí" and "sham" for Southern Kurdish right? Can you say, what are "dav", "kevir", "pévan", "revín", "tov" in Southern Kurdish? Thank you.

Hesen
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I changed it now into /m/ for

I changed it now into /m/ for Standard-Kurdish, because /m/ is more original kurdish loud and its were unfair to ignore this /m/. Also I as Zaza accept the /xw/ or /hw/ as Standard Kurdish because of originality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Standard_Kurdish#m

PS: Also here stands "hengaw" for "step" in Central Kurdish:

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~iranian/Sorani/sorani_complete.pdf

PS: Is the example "níw" for Southern Kurdish "half" right or do you say "ním"? And is "zíw" for "silver" right?

DRoshani
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Phoneme not loud!

Thank you for considering using Kurdish instated of Kurmanji is linguistic works. The second link is referred to Mid Kurdish as Sorani and treat it as a separate language rather than a major dialect of Kurdish. As we know Kurdish linguistic studies were dominated with western scholars' works up to mid 1950s who produced valuable materials. In some cases they chose terminologies which ignored the relation between dialects, geographical distribution of dialects and native provisional divisions of Kurdistan. We know in the majority of cases the name of a sub-dialect is the same of a Kurdish tribe and their geographical territories. When we say Sorani instead of Mid Kurdish we ignor the fact that Mid Kurdish is Mukrí of Mukríyan, Erdelaní of Erdelan, Germíyaní or Germíyan, Soraní of Soran, Xushnaw of Xushnaw area, Píjhder of Píjhder, and Píraní of Píran. The term Mid Kurdish will preserve all these beautiful characters and their history with fairness.

I think you should consider to use the term PHONEME instated of Loud. I am not sure but here is the source to give more information on the topic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme

I believe that the word Hengaw and Gam are two different words used in different syntax. You may say

It is only two steps. (Eme tenha do gam e.)

You should step forward to solve the issue. (Debét hengawék bo careserí késheke dabinét.)

Correct me if I am wrong here.

§-------------------------------------------
- Alfabéygí Yekgirig/Yekgirtú careseri bineyíg erra girifteyli zuwani Kurdí ye!
- "We must become the change we want to see" [quote: Mahatma Gandhi]

Hesen
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Thank you for the

Thank you for the explanation, I have added the variant "gam" to the list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Standard_Kurdish#m

Can you tell me, what are this words in Southern Kurdish:

- trap (dav)
- stone (kevir)
- half (nív)
- to flee (revín)
- seed (tov)
- silver (zív)

And can you check if the other examples are right like "sham" for "dinner" and "xamí" for "raw"? Thank you.

DRoshani
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They are...

- trap (dav) --> dam
- stone (kevir) --> kucig
- half (nív) --> ním
- to flee (revín) --> réwín
- seed (tov) --> tom
- silver (zív) --> zíw

- Sham (dinner) --> Sham
- Xamí (raw) --> Xamí

§-------------------------------------------
- Alfabéygí Yekgirig/Yekgirtú careseri bineyíg erra girifteyli zuwani Kurdí ye!
- "We must become the change we want to see" [quote: Mahatma Gandhi]

Hesen
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Thanks, I have added them to

Thanks, I have added them to the list, last question:

What are "to mesaure" and "prayer" (Northern Kurdish: nivéjh) in Southern Kurdish? Thanks.

DRoshani
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Pey kirdin

to measure = Pey kirdin / Peywanin

prayer = nùjh

§-------------------------------------------
- Alfabéygí Yekgirig/Yekgirtú careseri bineyíg erra girifteyli zuwani Kurdí ye!
- "We must become the change we want to see" [quote: Mahatma Gandhi]